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Thread: MMA Bug?

  1. #21
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    NERF freaking "Adamantine".

    BROKEN REASON #1: At resting state [ADAMANTINE] is already applied in the MMA stance. ADAMANTINE's the one that's causing all the skill negation if the received damage (from enemy) does not exceed 2*the MMA character's MHP. ADAMANTINE will not work if the received damage is OVER 2*the MMA character's MHP, resulting in OHKO of the MMA user. The opponent will be required to WASTE A SKILL and use another skill(effectively 2 skills) in order to be able to attack the MMA character.

    BROKEN REASON #2: It is IMPOSSIBLE to deal that much damage (exceeding 2*MMA user's MHP) on a well-geared MMA (in a 1v1 situation). Consequently, the MMA character is protected from the skill and can proceed to use his own skills on the enemy freely. Why broken? There's NO NEED TO PLAN/ POSITION, the MMA character can EASILY rush up to the opponent straight up because the first skill from the opponent will be negated anyway.

    BROKEN REASON #3: ADAMANTINE is re-activated upon EVERY SKILL usage from the MMA user (please just look at the very short MMA cool downs, they are SPAMMABLE). The MMA character will be PROTECTED from the opponent's skills every time he uses his own skill to activate ADAMANTINE. How's that fair?

    Simple case example in Clique Battle: MMA rushes up to Vanshee Natalie (Adamantine ON). Vanshee Natalie tries to defend herself by casting Deliberate Shot but it gets negated because it did not exceed 2* MMA character's MHP (Adamantine canceled, Toughness activated). MMA is able to get up close to Vanshee to use his skill (Toughness canceled, Adamantine re-activated). Miraculously, Vanshee survives and she tries to shrug him off with Point Blank but once again gets negated because Adamantine was re-activated from the MMA skilling her. MMA uses another skill on Vanshee to finish her off. How is that PVPing? Not to mention with Toughness the MMA can release accumulated damage in addition to his default damage, but that is fine there are ways to go about this BUT NOT FOR ADAMANTINE. Yes there are ways ONLY in mcc3 PVP but a LIMITED NUMBER WAYS and even so the opponent is SEVERELY DISADVANTAGED. For mcc1 PVP there is NO WAY TO COUNTER for 98% of the characters.

    These are all mentioned already in Waluste's post. Just reiterating. Please bring this ADAMANTINE mechanic up to IMC and suggest for a removal/ modification. Thank you.
    Last edited by Rosa Secreta; 07-25-2017 at 01:34 AM.

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  3. #22
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    It is broken and should be changed, hence it is being abused a lot and ofc who is to blame here but IMC with their thoughtless changes, diamond body (the old buff) wasn't this broken.


    to people saying it's intended i don't think that's the case, IMC just didn't think it thru that mma's can just spam skills and get toughness (there would have been some cooldown/no usage while the buff is in effect)... i dunno why people keep defending it, broken can lead to a bug and this is obviously the outcome of broken changes. it becomes a bug that's being abused right now.
    Last edited by metalsadman; 07-25-2017 at 01:42 AM.

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalsadman View Post
    to people saying it's intended i don't think that's the case, IMC just didn't think it thru that mma's can just spam skills and get toughness (there would have been some cooldown/no usage while the buff is in effect)... i dunno why people keep defending it, broken can lead to a bug and this is obviously the outcome of broken changes. it becomes a bug that's being abused right now.
    What I mean with "intended" is: the way it works now is how IMC wanted it to work, based on what is written in the patch notes. By no means I'm saying that it was a good change, or that it is balanced. I agree with you 100% when you say it wasn't a well-thought change, and that it is broken and should be nerfed.

    The one thing that I'm actually disagreeing with is the terminology being used when you guys say it is a bug. See:

    A software bug is an error, flaw, failure or fault in a computer program or system that causes it to produce an incorrect or unexpected result, or to behave in unintended ways.
    The result was expected, and the buff is working as intended (even though it's not balanced or fair!); thus, it isn't a bug.

  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waluste View Post
    What I mean with "intended" is: the way it works now is how IMC wanted it to work, based on what is written in the patch notes. By no means I'm saying that it was a good change, or that it is balanced. I agree with you 100% when you say it wasn't a well-thought change, and that it is broken and should be nerfed.

    The one thing that I'm actually disagreeing with is the terminology being used when you guys say it is a bug. See:



    The result was expected, and the buff is working as intended (even though it's not balanced or fair!); thus, it isn't a bug.
    well it is a logical error to code it like the way it is, resulting to a bug that is being abused... no matter how you defend it it has become a bug, you can't put it away to be a logical coding when it is in fact a logical error on the dev part (hence he didn't foresee,possible abuses) due result to bugs. people just can't comprehend this in layman's term.

    just go try it, you skill an mma under this buff nothing happens it works like dr'ed(or missed), target doesn't gets knockdown'ed or whatsoever, and you think it's not behaving incorrectly?

    @GEEU address this to IMC please.

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  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalsadman View Post
    you can't put it away to be a logical coding when it is in fact a logical error on the dev part (hence he didn't foresee,possible abuses) due result to bugs. people just can't comprehend this in layman's term.
    I totally get your point, and as I said before, I agree with you! The one thing I keep going on about is the usage of "layman's term" (that is conflicting with the technical term, in this case) that you mentioned. But why am I making such a big deal out of it?

    Look, the best way to help GEEU Team and IMC people (or any software developer) is to report stuff in the most precise way.

    If you simply say that "there is a bug with MMA", then they are gonna ask some programmer to look into that. He is gonna look at the code, and then he is gonna say "Nah, it's working as expected, my code is perfect!"

    The issue we have here are the unintended consequences of a change that wasn't well thought by the devs, and is now being abused - it's a game design issue, not a coding error. So it's something that gotta be fixed by the game designer in charge of GE (who is not necessarily a programmer!)

    So by describing the issue as accurately as you can, using the correct terminology and everything, you ensure that this is gonna be forwarded to the right people, and as such, they will "fix" it (or try to fix it, at least) as soon as possible - and then we'll all be happy once again!

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  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalsadman View Post
    well it is a logical error to code it like the way it is, resulting to a bug that is being abused... no matter how you defend it it has become a bug, you can't put it away to be a logical coding when it is in fact a logical error on the dev part (hence he didn't foresee,possible abuses) due result to bugs. people just can't comprehend this in layman's term.

    @GEEU address this to IMC please.
    Ok, same thing, but for Joshua then! Her dmg is bug, ppl abuse it alot, need nerf!
    " Satis Faction "

  11. #27
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    ITS NOT A BUG.

    Let me try to explain the mechanics of the game to you people so you can have a clearer view of whats happening.

    First, let me explain the hit states of this game, and the type of negations this game has to offer. What happens to character when you hit him/her with skills?

    The first scenario is that they get hit. Ouch, someone give that guy a potion.

    The second scenario is that the skill is negated, and that brings us to this big topic where many of you are confused - the hit states of a character when negating an attack. (I'm not talking about mma, but the term negation in general)

    There are two types of negations in this game. The pseudo negation, and absolute negation. (I came up with those names, sry if cheesy)

    Pseudo negation happens when a character evades a skill through blocking or evading attacks with their natural block or evasion stats. When this occurs, the word 'block' or 'parry' appears. When the character pseudo-negates, he or she is stuck in a 'flinch state' during the whole of the enemy's skill animation, and is unable to move. The amount of time stuck in 'flinch state' can be reduced by knockdown duration (jade rumin on armor). Different skills have varying 'flinch state' durations though, some being shorter than the others. E.g of short flinch skills are Musk's circle shot, Barrel's shooting cannon, where when they block, thr character isn't held in their position at all and can continue running like nothing's happening. This kind of negation is what most of us are familiar with, especially PvPers who played against Anias and Selvas blocking everything you throw at them as you run away to make some distance to save yourself from a horrible death-

    Now the second form of negation, absolute negation, is the one that is applicable to MMAs. I would recommend to try out Olivia to understand this mechanism. Or just Selva with her high skill eva. Absolute negation applies to the following (hopefully I don't miss out anything)

    1) When an offensive skill gets negated due to the difference in attack and defence rating

    2) Skill evasion (the ones you can 5% from family attribute, and from enhancing your boots, personal buff skills)

    3) Skill evasions granted from skills. This includes Magic Barrier, Olivia's counter to physical attacks, Ciel's first skill (I'm not sure if this skill counts, it does if the enemy's skill goes on cooldown), MMAs specified jobskills, Scout's Mass Evasion and most importantly and relevantly, MMA's adamantine buff.

    When a skill is negated by absolute negation, the very infamous 'piak' sound is heard, and bits of sparks emit out from the target you wanted to hit. There is no hitconfirm in this, hence the target is free to move around as you are stuck in your skill animation. And this is whats happening here.

    I honestly hate and despise adamantine buff and want to stab the kGE devs who thought it was a great idea to give the overloaded mmas this buff. As for how adamantine works, Waluste has already explained in detail.

    So, if you want to kill a MMA,
    You must first pray to RNG that your skill does not get DR-ed as that leads to absolute negation.

    Then you must pray to RNG that your skill does not get negated by their self buff, as that also leads to absolute negation.

    Afterwards, you also need to pray to RNG that your skill doesn't get skill evaded from attributes as that also leads to absolute negation.

    Following up, you need to pray to RNG that your attacks that have no anti evasion will land on that 85 evasion MMA with lionheart rushing you head on. But hey, at least its pseudo evasion, the mma will be stuck in flinch state as you skill- or thats what you think, as the mma is flying as fast as Sonic and proceeds to slap you anyway.

    And lastly if RNG shines on you for all of the above, you have to hope that your skill does more than 2x of their hp in order to ohko them. If not they will just absolutely negate it and slap you with your salty extra damage on top.

    Yes you can argue that you can combo them with others, but atm its impossible to 1v1 them.

    Jesus christ fk mmas
    Last edited by Edesse; 07-25-2017 at 08:53 AM.
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  12. #28
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    Haha, You made my day.
    And Waluste, I respect you.
    People are easier to yell at the entire server about a single character's bug and use the bug of the other (Joshua), without even having figured out the mechanics of the stance. Half of the screaming people are not even able to understand that this is not a character, but a stance.
    But anyway, mma in this condition is TOO powerful, but not bugged, need nerf.
    What a shame.
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  13. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edesse View Post
    When a skill is negated by absolute negation, the very infamous 'piak' sound is heard, and bits of sparks emit out from the target you wanted to hit. There is no hitconfirm in this, hence the target is free to move around as you are stuck in your skill animation. And this is whats happening here.
    So what a about when there is not even a spark? I had it almost everytime using daisy in CB where my bolts or skills just go trough the MMA character, having 79ar and over 150penetration. I would atleast except block/evasion/or even a spark but 9 out of 10 times i don't get anything

  14. #30
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    The thing metalsadman wanted to make clear is that the devs did probably NOT intend to make the strongness buff this OP.
    Got your point of how it works but in the end, did they really want it to make such an impact? They clearly didn't think it through. Ok there might be no error in the stance but the outcome was just overpowered.

    I think we all agree that it needs a nerf/rework, which we've all clearly stated and requested now. People really get emotional here
    Hopefully they take care of it rather sooner than later.

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